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Emails with a Christian Lady



Dr. Adel Elsaie





What do Muslims Really Believe about Jesus? - Joshua Evans



Jane mail is blue


mine is black


Jane  wrote:


i am sorry to say i have done many searching into the fate of the Virgin Mary.  Of course the catholic church says she was assended into heaven on the assumption date of august 15, but I can find no biblical backup or historical backup to confirm or dispute this.  THe earliest know writings are from the date of 300s state she died with the apostles especially peter with her ( Ecoptic writings), then went to heaven. It is said that Jesus told his apostles that not the greatest would see heaven before the least. So thinking that Mary must serve among the greatest, she would not see heaven before the least. nothing backs that up.  as far as Mary from Magdelene, ahhh there is a mystery.  First she was ordained as the whore which Jesus saved from stoning.   THen now the catholic church apoloigizes states she wasnt a whore.

But the big mystery remains, what what she to Jesus?  There are a whole cult, or secret society that believes mary of magdelene was  married and produced an heir. even if Jesus was the chosen of GOd, why not have a wife?  anyway, it is thought among the secret society that she was the holy grail, the holy vessel. to hold the seed of the holy one.  IT is believes she moved on to France after Jesus death, to produce heirs of the throne to france which is actually the throne of Jesus.

People like Isacc Newton and many others belonged to this secret society.  They believed the bible was written in code. That may or may not be true.

 

What I want u to look at , is the old testament, Genesis,  read about the archangel Micheal.

For I do believe he is the begotton son of GOd.  He was created with the other angels, but given the authority to fight the satanic things on earth.  God may have not really had a son , but sent his arch angel Micheal into the body of Immanuel to become the Messiah, and ordainded his adopted son to rule over the kingdom of heaven.  as john the baptist was controlled by the angel gabriel.  It makes sense, because God sends his son with the sprit of the arch angel to end the strife of the world at the end times. to end it all.  Jesus , Micheal, would not have to be his really really son, but his begotten son, whom he named son above all sons. whom he gave this power and honer and put at his right hand to do his will.  MIchael would be with him from the beginning as was lucifer. but lucifer chose to follow his own thinking and not the way of his creator.

just some of my readings and thoughts, what do u say?

Adel Elsaie <adelelsaie@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Jane


 

Thank you so much for you kind email.

 

You are right. I also believe that Jesus is the Messiah without the involvement of the trinity. The Quran says he is the Messiah.  May be this tells me that you don't believe in trinity.  Pagan trinities were everywhere in the Middle East and around the Mediterranean: Egypt, Palestine, Syrian, Persia, Turkey, Greece, and Roman Empire. They all had pagan trinity.

 

God created us different people to learn from each other. So You and I learn from each other. I am very interested about Jesus and Mary of Magdeline. What do know about that? Also do you have any info about what happened to Virgin Mary after Jesus?

 

About the son of god, Muslims take a strong exception to the Christian belief that "Jesus is the only begotten son." The word "only begotten" exists only in the Gospel according to John, only in the King James Version (1:14,1:18,3:16,3:18). Interestingly enough, this word "only begotten" does not exist in the Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard, or the World English Bible. Consequently, the two basic principles of Christianity, trinity and son of god, exist only in Gospel according to John and in First Epistle of John, only in the King James version, a version that was described as having grave defects. The average Christian should have the right to ask why was the basics of my Christian faith deleted from later versions of the Bible, and what happened to my faith? These are very serious and crucial questions. We all know by now that the writing of John is completely different from the synoptic Gospels. Again the question is why this word, that is extremely important, was deleted from later Bibles? But this is what Christians are made to believe in the churches without any references to the authenticity of the Gospels or to the different versions of the Bible. However, Christians also know that God has many sons according to the Bible:

 

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men."

Exodus 4:22 "Israel is my son, even my firstborn"

Deuteronomy 14:1 "Ye are the children of God."

Psalms 2:7 "The Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee."

Jeremiah 31:9 "for I (God) am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first born."

Luke 3:38 "which (Adam) was the Son of God."

Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

 

It is quite clear from the above verses that many righteous people were called sons of God. Israel and Ephraim were God�s firstborn. David and Jesus were called begotten sons of God. So what does that mean? It is a metaphorical, not literal, descriptive term that is commonly used by the Jews to indicate closeness and affection to God. The authors of the New Testament used the same title of the Son of God to indicate closeness to God. The apostles and Paul were Jews using Jewish terms. Jesus also said, "God is not only his father, but also your father" (Matthew 5:45 & 48). This metaphorical term is quite obvious in II Cor. 6:18 "And will be a father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Christians agree with that, but emphasize that Jesus was an exception based upon only the Gospel according to John only in the King James Version. God created Adam. But both Adam and Jesus had no fathers. As a matter of fact, creating Jesus was simpler, in a human sense, than creating Adam, because Adam had no father or mother, while Jesus had a mother. God created every living creature. He is the Lord, Creator, Cherisher, and Sustainer of all. Metaphorically speaking therefore God is the father of all.

In the Hebrews 7:3 there is a dramatic story about Melchisedec:

 

"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, or end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

 

Melchisedec was the king of Salem and a priest of God. He met and blessed Abraham, Genesis 14:17-24. According to the above verse he is eternal, with no beginning or end, with no father or mother. He was in a position to bless Abraham. He was made like the Son of God. What more can you ask for a God? According to the Christian logic in the Bible, Melchisedec should be the Son of God or even god himself. He is more unique than Jesus or Abraham or Adam. None of these prophets are eternal. Why is Melchisedec very much unknown to the Christians? A person with his credential should be more famous than Jesus! Some may argue about the verse "like unto the son of God" that he is like but not actually the Son of God. In this case, who would confirm that the word "like" was not added to the text, and who would confirm the authenticity of this whole part of the Hebrews, or who was the real author of this part? As usual this story is completely changed in other versions of the Bible. For example without mother changed to his mother was unknown!

Jesus called himself son of man and refused to be called Son of God:

 

Luke 4:41 "And the devils also came, out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God"

 

It is clear here that the devils attempted to call Jesus as Son of God, but he refused that title, as the devils knew Jesus was the Christ. Jesus even refused to be called "the Christ of God", and called himself the son of man, (Luke 9:20-22)

This is my link to the son of god: http://www.usislam.org/72sonof.htm

 

 

Best Regards.

 

Dr. Adel Elsaie

 

 


Jane  wrote:

now u are right, Christians in the organized faith are not the true believers of the Christian believers sent down by Jesus.  I am honered to have someone with your intelligence writing to me.  BUt u must realize, there are Christians out there who truly believe in Jesus as the son of GOd. Who truly believe Jesus is the chosen one and for many biblical likenesses in the old testament proves that Jesus is the Messiah without the involvement of the trinity. It is not our fault that organized religions like catholism, lutherism, methodist, baptist, has distorted the great writtings to suit their own purposes. but I do believe in the revelation of John who was with Jesus and the last living survivor of his words. I do belive that God did speak to him and told him to write what he was told, as u say Mohamed was.  For it was told that the Word should be spread to everyone, and then the end will come.

 

I do look into the links u send me, like Issac Newton. Yes I believe he may have been a true follower of the CHristian belief.  He also was a follower in a secret society which felt that Mary of Magdeline was the true holy grail. Maybe so, maybe not. BUt even if she was the only thing that would make her HOly was that Jesus himself was More that a prophet and holier then holy to have her as his wife.

 

I am happy to share such interesting discussion with you.  I may not change your beliefs, you prolly won't change mine, but it will help both of us to understand each other hoperfully.

 

peace to u and happiness

Jane



Adel Elsaie <adelelsaie@yahoo.com> wrote:

You said "Why is it that simple? In regards to the virgin birth of Jesus.  If Jesus was just another beloved prophet, why not MOses?  WHy not David? Why not Mohamed?  WHy then Jesus?"

 

Why Adam was created without male or female, Why Eve created without female?

 

Ms. Jane, I don't believe that Christians today are the true and the original Christians. The original Christians were the Ebionites. Their first leader was St. James. Read The Epistle of James. I feel if I give a link, you will not read it. So I give to here:

 

There are a number of distinct characteristics that set the Epistle of James apart from the other New Testament Epistles:
  • Jesus is mentioned only twice in James 1:1 and James 2:1. There is not a single verse of his death, his resurrection, and Paul salvation theology.  This indicates that James and his group, the Ebionites, did not believe in these items. James gives us the pure teachings of Jesus rather than teachings about Jesus.
  • In James 5.10-11 it was Job and not Jesus who serves as an example of endurance and willingness to suffer for the purpose of God. This is totally against Pauline Christianity which is based upon the ultimate suffering and crucifixion of Jesus for the human sins.
  • The Epistle emphasizes that faith has to be accompanied with wisdom (1:2-8), and declares that faith without works is dead (2:14-26). This is totally against Paul in his epistles to the Roman and Galatians that stress on belief in Jesus, born again, Jesus loves you, Jesus dies for you and all the other nice slogans that do not require even believing in the Ten Commandments. James was not merely talking about the importance of works; he was making his case by asserting it against Paul�s view that faith alone, without works, is sufficient.
  • The Epistle portrays a deep sympathy for the poor and persecuted (2:1-9, 5:1-6), while at the same time criticizing the rich (4:13-17, 5:1-6). This is again strongly reminiscent of what we know about the original Jewish-Christian community in Jerusalem, where the term the poor was commonly used as an honorable title to describe the community there - either the whole group or a large part of it.
  • There is no mention of Gentiles within the church.  In fact, James does not mention Gentiles at all, and  the Letter was addressed to the twelve Jewish tribes in the Dispersion. It is likely that this Epistle was written before the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15 and that Gentiles had not yet been accepted into the church.
  • Christianity is not presented in contrast with Judaism.  There is no �us versus them� mentality.  Instead Christianity is presented as a fulfillment of the Jewish faith. The only distinction is that Jesus is recognized as the Messiah, and the emphasis on the spirit of the Jewish Law.
Can you explain the above points?? Or you don't believe St. James?
 
Also the Bible is full of insignificant details, and it left out what happened to Mary after Jesus? Can you tell me what happened to Mary after Jesus?

 

Best Regards.

 

Dr. Adel Elsaie



Jane  wrote:

Why is it that simple? In regards to the virgin birth of Jesus.  If Jesus was just another beloved prophet, why not MOses?  WHy not David? Why not Mohamed?  WHy then Jesus?

 

ANd yes the bible does put Mary above women.  Her without sin and chosen among all women to bear Jesus, the ordinary prophet no better then Moses, Abraham or Mohamed.  SO why the virgin birth of Jesus?  Somehow he must have been more chosen then the rest of the prophets.  Or why didn't all the prophets be born of a holy virgin?

 

And yes cruicifixion is or must be a horrible death.  And many people die horrible deaths.  Why let Jesus if it was God's son die a horrible death?  It was written somewhere in the old testament this would happen, and not only that crucifixion was a common death penalty back then.  If Jesus was to die for the atonement of our sins, would it have had more impact on the worlds if he just had a heart attack?

 

Most non Christians are too hung up on thinking all Christians believe in a holy trinity.  You stereotype us all as believing all the falsehoods that the catholic church cooked up back in the 300's.  The reason I believe most catholics and christians turn from their faith to religions like Islam, Buddism, different cults, etc.  Because they find for the most part their organized religion dosn't hold up to the teachings of the bible.  People want to believe in something higher up but they don't feel it in the church they were raised.  People of stranger faiths seem very convincing that what they have is right and the only way to believe.  And many people searching for the truth are very vulnerable.  Take for example John smith and the angel MOriah who founded the mormons, the Hare CHristnas back in the 60's.  Jim JOnes in the 70's , Koresh in the 90's.  There are always "prophets" who proclaim they are the one true way of the true GOd.  They all believe their word is from the true GOd.  And they get thousands to follow them.  There religion all seems wonderful and right, but was it?  Mohamed from what I have read and how he is being glorified, takes too much credit for being "all" responsible for founding a new religion.  From what I read that many send me, it seems Mohamed is equal to ALlah.  Daily Islamic prayer to ALlah always praise HIs prophet Mohamed, but yet no other prophets.  Why is he so much more special then all the other prophets before him to be named at the same time when worshipping Allah?, he is not a god.  Yet he was born of a plain sinning non- virgin women.  No miricle to his birth.  Yet Islam shuns the miraculousness or the birth of Jesus.  Like he wasnt anyone really special, just another great prophet to say PBUH to.  From what I have read in history, when Rome decided to jump in on Christian teaching, they still refused to give up many of their pagan beliefs. And at the time they still waged much wars over land in the name of religion.  Thus the spanish inquisition.  But at the same time, there were still true followers of Jesus, who were NOT associated with the Catholic Universal church of the time.  It's always been over land control in the name of whatever god. And whatever king was in control, his people were to worship the god he worshipped.  Funny how most pagan kings back then anointed themselves as "Pope".  I can see the frustration of the arab countries trying to be controlled still by a roman empire, but it still dosn't discount the truth of Jesus, and his hidden true followers.

 

Regardless of what either of us say or believe, one should live our lives as best as possible and ask GOd for help and forgiveness, and thank Him for all we have.  Someday, and probably sooner than later, we will all know what GOd;'s real wishes are and if Jesus truely is His begotten son or people were right to follow Mohamed.

Adel Elsaie <adelelsaie@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Ms. Jane

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I hope you looked at the links I sent you in my website. If not, please do.

 

I want to tell you that I was also searching for the Truth. I wanted to know which religion to follow. It took me 10 years. Then I wrote my first book "History of Truth"  Which is totally in my website. Enjoy it.

 

I agree that the errors in the bible are from over interpreting to so many languages. But I don't agree that all the points and events remain the same. In 1690, Sir Isaac Newton (died 1727) wrote a manuscript on the corruption of the text of the New Testament concerning I John 5:7 and Timothy 3:16. Please look at:
http://www.usislam.org/IslamicYouth/WMD/newtonbible.htm

 

I not convinced with your answer about Jesus last words "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?"  My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" as in Matthew 27:46 

 

If Jesus was fulfilling his mission, he should be happy and not to consider this abandoning. This statement is exactly the same as Psalm 22.1. WHY????? The man on the cross was a Jew asking God for help, Not Jesus. That is what the Quran said. I do not believe Jesus was even put on the cross. That is a horrible death that God the Absolute Just would not do to his beloved Jesus.

 

Importance of Virgin Birth:

 

The Quran has Chapter 19 with title Mary, who is the holiest woman ever in Islam, an honor that the Bible did not give her.

 

Now God created Adam without a male or female.

God created Eve (female) from Adam (male)

God created all of us from male and female.

So He has to create Jesus (male) from Mary (female) to show us he is capable of any creation. It is that simple.

 

Do you know what is the first miracle of Jesus in the Bible and the Quran???

 

I hope you agree that trinity is the most difficult thing to explain in Christianity. Do you know why? Because if Jesus said in the bible clearly " God, I, and the Holy Ghost are made of the same essence" and explain that, most people will believe him. But he never said that. It was the first Ecumenical council of Church in 325 AD that said that under the authority of a pagan emperor.  The whole thing was political.

 

The first seven Councils of the early Christian world, under directions of Roman Emperors and Empresses and pagan converts, merged the pure moral teachings of Jesus with polytheism and paganism.  Many Christians do not know these facts: http://www.usislam.org/69ecum.htm

 

Also see Muslims and 5 US Presidents do not agree with the trinity:

 

You want to know the Truth. Trinity was everywhere in the Middle East. So the pagan converted Christians converted pagans from one form of trinity to another. Please read history.

 

Some TV Evangelists in USA claimed that Allah is a moon god. To their ignorance, God said in the Quran" Don't worship the sun or the MOON" Quran 41:37 Please look at:

 

I hope you are satisfied now.

 

My dear Jane,  please Read, and don't be influenced by organized religions. May Allah guide you to HIS WAY.

 

Best Regards.

 

Dr. Adel Elsaie

 

Anette wrote:

 

Surely Jesus could not tell his apostles, i go to prepare a place for you in heaven with my Father if he didn't have a father in heaven.  No I am not the only person on earth who believes in Jesus.  I am just one searching for the truth, which honestly organized religion does not seem to have.  Most of the errors in the bible are from over interpreting to so many languages.  but the point and events remain the same.  The catholic church centuries ago rebuked the use of the bible for everyday people, because the church was not following the bible.  they made up their own laws. these which conflicted too much with the bible.  so catholics are told to take it with a grain of salt for the nice stories, but to follow the law of the pope.  every organized religious cult has their own "book" and their own set of rules.  Some keep the ones that suit their needs and the ones that don't they dismiss as a falsehood.  One can read the "old testament' and find many correlations and fullments in the new testament.. even if the old testament prophets writings is all we had, we would still be able to read in the revelations of Isiah and Daniel what was to come into the future.

 

Now to wonder about the phrase Jesus used before he died.  "Father, why have you forsaken me">   well many bible scholars (and i'm not talking the pope, etc)  believe this.  At the moment of Jesus death, He took on the sins of the world.  Remember about the parable of the pigs?  Jesus cast demons out of a man and put them into the pigs/ at that moment they were not pigs anymore but demons, but since they were in pigs bodies they went crazy and they jumped off a cliff.  ANyway,  God is without sin, he has nothing to do with sin, he shuns sin.  Jesus, taking on the sins of the world was SIN> not that he would not be forgiven, but at that moment, God turned his face from Jesus since sin was in his body. (im not saying that JEsus sinned, he just took on sin, like the pigs took on demons)  That was the one and only time in the life of Jesus before he came to earth and since that he did not "walk with GOd".  So naturally as a suffering human, in a human body, he felt so alone and forsaken.  Right after that though he says, "It is finished" then "Father into your hands I commend my spirit".  It then is reasonable to say, that sin was forgiven, he walked again with GOd, he fulfilled what he came on earth to finish, then put his spirit into GOd's hands.

 

One answer that no one in the Islamic faith has been able to answer for me is this.  Jesus in the Islam faith is a great prophet, like those before him, and Mohamed after him.  So if He  was just another great prophet sent by GOd, why the importance of a virgin birth?  Why were not all the prophets then born of a virgin birth?  Including Mohamed.  Why was his birth predicted thousands of years ago by Isiah even naming the town he would be born in?

 

Why the importance of the story of Jonah?  Who was lost in the belly of the whale for 3 days.  Seems to have an extreme correlation to the time Jesus spent in the grave for 3days.  How do Islams explain the story of JOnah then?  If you do not believe Jesus was crucified and in the grave 3 days before he arose, then what is the signifcance to Islam of Jonah?

 

Jesus did not rebuke the Torrah at his time, he ruked the church leaders.  Putting unnecessary taxes and money for sacrifices on people who could not afford them.  Turning the house of worship into a marketplace for the gains of the priests.  Not unlike the catholic church who did the same to it's people to scare them into making monetary donations in order to get to heaven.  Which is why LUther broke away from the catholic church and started a new religion.  THe words in the torrah were never rebuked, it was the way the leaders were giving the misinterpretations.  FOr 1 example, their law was to not work on the Sabbath.  BUt Jesus asked if their was an animal in need of help, would you help it on the Sabbath.  According to the priests at that time, it would be a sin  But Jesus tried to explain that a good act whether it be work or not would not be sinnful on the sabbath.  It would be more of a sin to just let that animal die.  That is where nit picky over interpretation comes in.

 

I do not claim to be a scholar.  I cannot quote bible, I have read the bible many times but not for memorization.  I have to look into the bible when someone quotes a phrase at me, for I do not have any of it memorized word for word.  But I do feel God has inspired me to look for the truth, and to test the prophets.  Islam claims they are a fast growing religion with millions of new followers.  BUt according to Jesus, it is easier to go thru the eye of the needle then the door to Heaven. 

 

Many scholars write (and I am not saying I believe this) that Mohamed chose a god at the time he was on earth the "moon god allah". THere were many gods floating around at that time, but supposedly he convince his followers to worship the one true god the "moon god'.

Now if this is far from the truth, why is it that Islam uses the crest of the moon for its symbol?  Why also does Ramaden end with the full moon?  If there is no significance to ancient moon worship, why would Islam pick something that as seen as once pagan?  Kinda like christians follow christmas even though it has nothing to do with the birth of CHrist but a pagan holiday of the winter solstice.  And Jesus *(proven by many scholars) was not even born in December.  And also Easter, a pagan spring ritual religion worshiping the goddess Esther.  It has nothing to do with the risen Christ.  You see how many pagan religious beliefs have intermixed with religion.  As so the moon god.

 

peace and happiness

Jane

 

Dear Ms. Jane

 

It seems that you don't have solid information about Islam and Christianity

 

Fist Allah promised to preserve the Quran. The same text of the Quran exists everywhere on earth. Second this Holy Book (604 pages) is also memorized totally by millions of Muslims, since the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). In the present time, millions of them are under 15 years old.

 

There is no such a book in the history of humanity that is preserved like the Quran. It did not change, and does not have a single error. The Bible can't even come close.

 

You need to know a little bit of History about the authenticity of the Quran. And Please Don't get your info from the lies of the critics of Islam. Most are blinded by hate and fear.

 

The Othman Koran was compiled in Medina by Othman, the third caliph. In an obscure corner of the Uzbek capital, Tashkent, lies one of Islam's most sacred relics - the world's oldest Koran. 

 

I received many emails from Christian brothers and sisters asking me to open my heart to Jesus, so I can see the "light", So I wrote an article:

I opened my heart to Jesus:

 

http://www.usislam.org/islamicyouth/WMD/i_opened_my_heat_to_jesus.htm
I have 5 Bible in my home, All of them are different. These versions are compiled and translated by highly educated Christian Scholars. Here I am at a total loss. I don't know which Bible to believe, and which Christian expert to trust:

 

 

There are over 50 verses in Bible deleted or added. Was this an inspired deletion or inspired addition?. Please look at:

 

Do you believe that Jesus was on the cross and then he said:
 
"Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?"  My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" as in Matthew 27:46, or he said  "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtani?" My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?�  as in Mark 15:34. How can anyone believe that God has abandon  Jesus? He knew my mission in life, so how can that be called abandonment? This statement is absolutely not true. God never abandon him. It was not Jesus on the cross. You know that the same sentence, word for word, exists in the songs of David, Psalm 22.1. It was a Jew asking God for help from the Old Testament.  And why there are other versions of Jesus last words?

 

You are saying that the Catholic hijacked Christianity, and you are the true believers of Jesus. OK, I believe that. But I also believe that other Christian sects are doing the same. To be honest with you, We, Muslims are the true heirs of Jesus and Christianity.

 

According to the New Revised Standard, Jesus Called him "son of man" 84 times, People and Paul and the devils called Jesus "son of god" 63 times. Now which one do you believe: Jesus or Paul, people or the devils? You be the judge.

 

 

 

Yesterday I went to a Mosque, and saw Dr. Jerald F. Dirks - Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church  Who converted to Islam in 1992. HE WAS A CHRISTIAN MINISTER, knows the Bible better than you and me. I asked  him jokingly "Did you convert by the sward" He smiled and shook his head. !!!!!! He is not alone, See the Priests and missionaries who converted to Islam. They will tell you why they converted. I believe you will know something important.

 

God in Islam is the Most High. He does not rest, he does not wrestle  with a prophet the whole night, He does not show his back parts to Moses, ..... HE IS GOD.

 

If you are a missionary trying to influence Muslims in Islamic user groups using Weapon of Missionary Deception (WMD), Please look at:

 

If you are serious about Islam and Christianity. Read the Bible and Quran carefully. Only at this time you will understand.

 

I answered your questions about Islam, Can you answer my questions about Christianity without apologetic rhetoric??

 

Best Regards.

 

Dr. Adel Elsaie